Learning to Read Thai - and importance of private lessons?

[alohatiger]

I am about a beginner level 2 Thai speaker. I could learn more vocabulary, but I have mastered reading different transliterated systems for words. I would like to get ahead and learn to read the Thai script (I suppose writing is good too, just to reinforce the reading). My grammar's not so good, but I haven't got any hardened bad patterns yet, so I'll learn to say things the right way through practice.

I have heard of course to learn the Thai script early, but the schools are not structured that way. It's more like two - three months of speaking, THEN you start to learn the Thai script. I am pretty much at the point of a level 1 (4 week course) graduate: some familiarity, but still weak in some areas. Once I learn the Thai script, the transliterated system is thrown out anyways. So might as well pretend it's like summer school and setup the pressure cooker for that just right rice and study HARD ... ahhh ...

So, since all I devote myself to is working out and learning Thai for the next month or so, why NOT learn the Thai script as well? I'll be doing 4 hours in the morning, workout, some homework, and maybe some reinforcing at AUA to listen to more Thai speakers. Personally, right now since I'm still a beginner, I get more out of a Thai movie with english subtitles. Cheaper too! (A movie can be 100-160 baht for 90 minutes, an hour at AUA is what, 100-200 baht? Buying the DVD and watching it again and again is even cheaper! Choose subject that interests you. Romance, adventure, etc.) Not to say I won't get more out of it later, since listening is DEFINITELY an important component, but I definitely feel more comfortable putting in the hard hours first, THEN coasting in with Automatic Learning Growth. Because anyhow, sure, when we were 5 years old we learned to speak a few words, but to be intelligible, we DID have to go to school! I don't know too many street urchins, poor dirt farmers or aborigine tribesmen who never went to school that I'd like to emulate in speech. That being said, it's definitely the place to hang out and learn once I've got a small base to work from.

I've got some kindergarten books for kids. They have the associated object (like Gor Gai, i.e., G Chicken) in a picture on the corner and several lines of practice with the character outlined in dotted lines, so you can practice writing them over and over again.

I would like to learn to write, but I really need to learn how to READ. I need to know the special relationships between various vowels and consonants, and all those speech rules. And how the tones are signalled, etc.

** Please suggest some good books that have a good section on READING and PROPERLY PRONOUNCING THAI. **

I'll probably get the AUA books 1 and 2. Or maybe the Union books. Whichever seems best. I think they are both good systems, but I haven't seen the Union books yet. Just everybody seems to be well-satisfied with their system. But AAA's books look good too, and the lady I spoke with there is a real teacher. Very nice.

Thanks for all your replies!!!


Aloha and mahalo,
Alohatiger


PS: I might as well throw this in:

My plan of study:

I will spend 3-4 hours in the morning learning Thai the hard way at a reputable school.

I will work out afterwards and take a break and eat.

I will study some more (maybe start my homework), then:

** point in question **

Do I do a private hour of instruction at 400 BAHT PER HOUR?

** Yikes!!! **

I guess I could do so only 3x per week, that's only 1200 baht more per week ...

Could be the polish on my Thai, or a big waste ...

But I think I'll do it. An extra hour or private one-on-one feels REALLY good. And I'll just write down all my questions and save them for the privates.

So, that's about 6-7000 baht for 4 weeks, plus about 4800 baht in private lessons (wow! that adds up fast!) I should be pretty good after that. I suppose the private lessons will help with the alphabet and reading as well. That's about 12,000 baht for ONE month. About $320 USD. Pretty pricey ...

** Please provide input on how important private lessons are.** Otherwise, I can just grill myself for 2-3 hours with the same effect.

[mikenz66]

I don't thing reading is all that difficult, compared to speaking and listening, so I don't see why you need lessons. I have no familiarity with the AUA books, but if I picked one book I own to do what you suggest it would be Becker's Thai for Beginners. Each chapter has some conversation then a section on reading and writing. Just skip the conversation part.

I found learning to read using the Manee book on http://www.learningthai.com/ was really useful because you can learn the letters gradually.

There is lots of useful stuff, with sound, here: http://www.learningthai.com/thai_alphabet.html
Check out particularly the lessons at the bottom of the page.

There are some useful tables and some exercises on: http://couragesoftware.com/

There are some very detailed discussions of consonants and vowels and tones on: http://thai-language.com/ref/
If you are just starting there is too much detail, but those pages are good for looking up how to pronounce complex vowels, etc.
In particular, I recommend the table at the bottom of this page: http://thai-language.com/default.aspx?ref=tonecalc

It is useful, but not essential at the start, to be able to recite the alphabet (becomes essential when you want to use a paper dictionary...). Since you sound very motivated you could put some time in writing out the consonants every day. Some people advise just writing one letter on day one, two on day two, and so on.

[ladida68]

I just want to say that I've learned how to speak, read and write by myself. I've been studying on and off for 8 years. I started with Thai for Beginners and went through the series. Actually, I first started with the alphabet book that you mentioned. That was really all I needed to be able to read and write although it took a while. There are like 28 rules you need to remember for tones. It's confusing and frustrating in the beginning but once you know it, it's easy. Drill those rules into your head.

I've also studied using subtitles. It's frustrating in the beginning when the reading is slow but it helps you read quickly.

There used to be some audiobooks that I've found really helpful but I can't find them in stores anymore. Great for practice. They speak clearly. Unlike those darned dubbed movies.

I sometimes wonder how far I'd be if I would have had a teacher in the beginning... It's a tough call. I never wanted to put that much money in to what I figured could be almost free.

Good luck!

[thaibook]

Hey: I am currently learning Thai and find it useful as guidance for a teacher. I go to university and therefore my teacher just wishes my payment to be in the form of coffee but I find it quite useful. I look at a teacher along the lines of a personal trainer. A teacher will overlook and in a way help to force the material in your head therefore learning a bit quicker. Also, learning with a native speaker is one of the best ways to learn. If you have any questions, a teacher can explain and answer where obviously a book/CD cannot. I believe that a teacher is best used for learning to speak more than learning to write. A lot of the writing at first is mentally remembering the symbols but some listening how to be done though. Just an opinion coming from someone learning as well....

[mikenz66]

I'm mostly self-taught (and not very good at Thai) and I certainly agree that having access to Thai speakers is a great help (almost essential). I'm sure I'd progress a lot faster if I had real lessons, rather than hitting on friends/acquaintances/monks to help me with my pronunciation and grammar.

But my point was that reading is one part that is not that difficult to do by yourself. With recordings of the consonant and vowel sounds (which you can find on the internet or in the CDs that come with books like Thai for Beginners) and an explanation of the rules (again, I recommend a book that does it step by step) it's not so difficult to get to the point where you can read almost any word as long as you have a "cheat sheet" of the vowels and consonants and a tone table such as the one at the bottom of this page: http://thai-language.com/default.aspx?ref=tonecalc. I could probably do that after a month or two. To remember the intial and final sounds and classes of all the consonants takes a bit longer...

If I was able to find a "real" teacher, I'd want to spend time on speaking and listening, not writing...

[ralesk]

One thing that I found is that the unaspirated ones and jOO jaan and OO ang are middle tone. All nasals (n, m, ng) and fluids (or what was the name, r, l, y) are low tone.

As for what it is when final: anything derived from a k-like sound (g, k/kh) becomes k, anything that’s related to t becomes t (t, th, d, dj (IPA:[ʥ] or [ʤ], "j", as in ¨), tch (IPA:[ʨ] or [ʧ], "ch" as in ª, ©, ¬), and s, which you can remember as being a part of affricates (although a ts-like sound doesn’t exist in Thai, only tsh and dzh)), and anything that’s related to p becomes p (p, b, ph, f). And fluids become n except for yOO yak (this can be remembered by knowing that all of them are low tone, just like nasals).

I can’t believe I found any logic in this o.o;

[mikenz66]

That is a really useful list. Thanks for the insight into what sounds are "related".

I don't understand why the books I have don't mention that the mid-class consonants are the unaspirated ones, since that's such a useful memory aid.

The only other patterns I can recall that you left out involves your set of "nasals" + "fluids"
1. They give live endings.
2. The members of that set do not have high-class pairs, so you need Á and ËÁ, for example, to generate all the possible tones. Whereas other low class-consonants have high-class versions. ¤£ ¾½ ¿½ ...
3. Your "fluids" are the second consonant in most consonant clusters (¤Ã, etc). (There are a quite limited number of first consonants too) http://www.learningthai.com/cluster.htm

[ladida68]

One more thing I forgot to mention when learning to read. Pick something you can actually get through. Don't even think about reading the newspaper, that is torture with all those names of people and places and then all those abbriviations. Pure Hell. Even children's books are hard. There are all kinds of words that you'll never need to know, just think about Harry Potter. In the beginning you won't need words like witches and magic spells. My first book and the one I recommend to everyone is the diary of Anne Frank because it is simple language about simple things. Now I read other autobiographies by Thai people for the same reason. No flowery language. No prose.

[mikenz66]

Of course when I said "read almost any word" above I meant be able to pronounce it, not understand what it means!

That's an interesting suggestion about autobiographies. I guess Becker's Thai for Advanced Readers is kind of like that. She talks about herself and Thailand and has written it in deliberately simple English. [I know this from reading the introduction, and glancing at the summary translations, not from understanding the Thai...]

[guava]

Interesting reply Gary

There are many subliminal elements incorporated into each image. Notice that the strange man has hairy legs and is wearing high heels. He is a ladyboy (transvestite). This helps you to work out the tones.
For instance, for long, singing words (like "shoe" or "ring"), a woman will swell with emotion, resulting in a rising tone. Boys and ladyboys, on the other hand, find any kind of singing boring, so the tone will stay flat.

Interesting concept...............................