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Thailand vs australia experience
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  1. #1
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    sad

    Heyas,

    I read some nice stories about ppls thailand experiences so I wanted to add mine in too. Firstly, some background info about my country:

    I'd imagine the popular stereotype of an "Australian" would be the "bronzed-aussie" look, the blonde-hair, blue-eyes, eg, nicole kidman, or crocodile dundee, or that crocodile hunter guy!

    This popular stereotype does not fit in my suburb, none of us here look like that. Here is a school photo from my class in year 5. I've labelled the students backgrounds (as best as I can remember).



    Almost all of us are the sons and daughters of migrants to this country. In generations before me, migrants were labelled the derogative term, "WOG".

    Possible origins of the word may have been from a character from a childrens book called "Golliwog" (the character was pitch-black with a very large afro). Another possible origin was as an acronym for "Wierd Oriental Gentleman".

    In todays "wog" generation of Australia, it can be a word used jokingly amongst fellow wog-mates, similar to how you hear black americans saying things like, "what's up my nigger!" in american movies.

    I am Australian-born, with Turkish parents, and have lived here my whole life. We live in a suburb of Sydney called "Auburn". It is an incredibly multicultural suburb these days (Afghans, Iranians, Turks, Lebanese, Iraqis, Chinese, Kurds and many other cultures, all living side-by-side).

    Ok, to be continued... Next post, i'll ramble about what it feels like to be a "wog" in australia... And hopefully the post after that, I'll compare it to my experience in Thailand.

  2. #2
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    talking

    Not the sort of faces you expected in an "Australian" school, hey?? And keep in mind... This is not a special international school... This is an ordinary government public school... Even considered a "Disadvantaged School" at the time. (This meant that the government helped pay for school excursions because most of the parents were low-income earners, or un-employed)

    The early childhood days at Auburn Primary School were quite nice, I think most of us students got along fairly well with each other, regardless of our racial background. We even had school festivals where we got to see each others cultures; folk music, dances, and eat each others food. So yeah, we were all happy kids those days, I think the smiles in the photos back me up

    ...but I think each migrant parent had to make a choice in how they brought up their child... Was their identity going to be "Australian" or that of their native country, eg, "Turkish" for me.

    My parents made the choice, I was "Australian". I liked the idea of that, and I always wanted to fit in with the "Australian" kids, because they were cool, they looked like the people on television and in aussie tv shows. They had the blond hair, the blue eyes, the sort of image australian society worshipped at the time.

    I envied them, and I'm sure many other migrant children did too. I'm sure many of us felt "inferior" to them, because their "image" was the one this society worshipped, and the image of the migrant was an image of a no-hoper, un-employed "dole-bludger" (This is an australian term, for someone that survives on government unemployment benefits).

    So yes, the majority of my lifetime in Australia, I felt this "inferiority". And unfortunately, I'm starting to suspect that, to some extent, it is because white-australians considered themselves "superior".

    I've learnt a little about Australias political history. Before I was born, the government of the time had a "White Australia Policy". I believe that this meant that they would only allow migrants into this country if they were white. Amazing, hey?

    And I'd imagine, for a government to create such a policy, it must have had the support of the people of this country, at that time (otherwise, how did this party get voted into power, right?).

    Wow, that thought really freaks me out... There were enough ppl in this country to vote in a party that had beliefs like this... that believed whites were superior? and anyone else was inferior?

    While the "White Australia Policy" no longer exists today, what happened to those people that believed in it? I doubt that they just all dissapeared or died off. Even if they have died, I'd imagine such belief systems easily being passed down in a family.

    Racism exists in Australia, probably at a more subtle level than in the past though.

    I'm a victim of it, and so are many other migrants. We are the "second-class citizens"

  3. #3
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    talking

    I was only in Bangkok two weeks, for a thai music workshop, but the effect on my psychologically was enormous.

    Just seeing the way ppl interacted, the friendly manner, the warm smile, the respect between teacher-student.

    Yes, I know, good and bad people everywhere, but somehow, when you met a nice thai person, they were EXCEPTIONALLY nice, kind and over-generous!

    I think thais have some wonderful human qualities, I hope I can learn to be a bit more like them in my lifetime

    Ok, enough adulation

    In Thailand, I felt the tables had turned... After years of being part of a society that considered me to be an "inferior", Thai society somehow seemed to consider me a "superior"!

    "You are very handsome!" "You should be in the movies!"

    Things like this really freaked me out! Were they looking up to me, the way I used to look up to those Australian kids? I guess so.

    In turn, does this mean that they had feelings of inferiority too, just as I did with those Australian kids? I guess so.

    Was I happy with this? I dunno... Gee, y'know, when a girl says, "you are very handsome!"... jeez, that feels kinda nice eh... After years of feeling inferior in my looks compared to white-australians... wow...

    Still.. It kinda bugged me... I'm pretty sure I remained the same person in both societies, yet somehow, they perceived me differently... Hmm...

    I don't know where to go from here... I'll sleep on it, and hopefully string this into a pleasant conclusion somehow

  4. #4
    annabee Guest
    hey gurce

    I went to an primary school in australia they considered "disadvantaged" as well.I was one of three students out of a school with a total of about 500 students of direct asian origins.

    I was the only thai and the only asian not to be put in an esl class..I was thai but I remember recieving well meaning sympathetic questions about how "my family" escaped to australia...by this i meant when I was in primary school being asian meant people thought you were a refugee escaping something...ironic really since all I wanted to "escape" was them...5555 I didnt feel different till they made me..the teachers I mean..

    I thank the heavens that my family chose australia...it has it problems , its not perfect but then no country is..but for the sheer abilty to allow people freedoms and oppurtunitys..its hard to beat.

  5. #5
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    Heya,

    Yeah, there are nice things about Australia. I've been painting a fairly gloomy picture of it, hey?

    Mainly, because I get the impression Australia markets itself to other countries in an over-positive/shiny/cosmetic way (as many other countries do to), I want to expose a few of the "warts" on Australia's shiny face... And I believe racism is one of those warts.

    Anyway, this is just my life, my story, one view of what Australia looks like, from my eyes.

    So if want to share your story too, then I'd be glad to listen to another perspective (or maybe if you did before, you got a link to it?)

    Hmm, as for a conclusion to my ramblings... jeez... I dunno.. I've rambled on enough I guess, if I think of anything else I'll just tack it on.

  6. #6
    januspentium Guest

    blushing

    There are good and bad people everywhere. In every culture, there's a certain race to be called inferior. The buttom line is how you really feel about yourself. You can't easily let some people bother you and make you feel inferior. So you don't have blond hair and blue-eyed? Big deal? I don't think so. I think westerners are easy to get along and they are open-minded otherwise we wouldn't see imigrants living in Australia, Canada, Great Britain, New Zealand, USA,etc... We don't see many imigrants in Japan, China, Russia, middle east, etc...not even Thailand.

    By the way,Turkey is cool. Who in the world doesn't know Hagia Sophia in Istanbul?

  7. #7
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    Gor Gai

    I agree with alot of what you have to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]The buttom line is how you really feel about yourself
    Agreed. And additionally, I believe if you live in a country that considers you an inferior, for your whole life, this has an enormous negative impact on how you feel about yourself.

    I believe I am saying this through my experience, if you have an experience that counters this, please share.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]You can't easily let some people bother you and make you feel inferior
    Agreed. When experiencing this kind of "mental oppression" in a society, however, I believe you do require certain mental skills to combat and deflect it.

    Unfortunately, none of us are born with these skills. They are learnt slowly, in time. So in those early childhood years, children are INCREDIBLY vulnerable. They believe whatever grown-ups tell them. They believe everything they see&hear on the TV. And this is when the damage is done. My life experience backs this up.

    So yes, you've made many good points, but from my perspective, "good points" don't make the problem go away. They just kinda sweep the problems under the carpet. Maybe that was a bit harsh, sorry.

    I do believe however, if you have a point to make on issues like this, you should back it up with your own experiences. Don't just let the point speak for itself. Give it more meaning, make it personal.

    I'm happy to discuss any areas in more detail if you would like to understand the issue further. It's hard to summarise 25 years of life into a few emails, but maybe if you walk in my shoes for a bit longer, you will understand my situation better.

  8. #8
    dinkum Guest
    I really enjoyed and appreciated your story. It's good to see things from the other side of the fence looking back. I could write about ten pages on this topic, but I think that would overdo it a bit.

    I'm an eighth generation Australian with ancestors from England and Ireland (3 convicts), Scotland, Wales, Germany, France, Denmark and China. I'm not blonde haired or blue eyed, rather brown haired and green eyed, depending. I was born and raised in the same town as both of my parents, Gulgong NSW, an old gold rush town, over which Henry Lawson wrote much of his works. One of my ancestors, Hong Winn, sailed from Hong Kong to Australia with his father and set up some market gardens here, in fact the house I live in today, the house across the creek and two houses up the road were built by his family. On the range to the north of my place there used to live a Chinese bush ranger, Sam Poo, and across the creek lived the infamous Aboriginal bush ranger Jimmy Governor, but now unfortunately the place is nearly all white, apart from adopted Indian and Thai kids. The only gene that has recognisably been passed on to me from the Chinese is my dark skin, for which I was called 'abo' at school. I was always proud of being part Asian, I guess mainly because like all my mates, I jumped around as a kid pretending I was a Ninja Turtle or Bruce Lee. I thought Australia was great because it's a melting pot of so many races and cultures, free of racism. My Nan (father's mother, part Chinese) told us a story about when she was a child and her grandfather died; her aunts and sisters collected all of the chinaware, the ornaments, the tools and utensils out of the house, threw it all into a pit they had dug, then burnt it. To me, being so in love with all things Asian, I was heartbroken by the thought that these people were made so embarrassed by their looks that they decided to burn any reminder of their identity. As elders in the family died off, more and more secrets and stories came out in to the open, of home abortions, and children being raised to think that their aunt is their mother, while in reality their older sister was. My Nan still finds it difficult to talk openly about her family, which annoys me, but I guess that is the result of living in a predominantly white community during the white Australian policy and being made to feel embarrassed about your skin.

    I could write SO much more about this topic, but the tall poppy syndrome is so rife here that I think I'm a wanker writing about myself.

    I can tell you this but: after backpacking around Europe and SE Asia, I have become much more proud of Australia because although I'm embarrassed by her problems, it is a swag load better than most other places. But I love Thailand, I really, really love Thailand, so much so that it hurts, and I would move their and live happily ever after, but I would feel I'm intruding on their beautiful land. Even if I were to become a Thai citizen, I would never be Thai, nor would my kids, should I have any. That's one thing I like about the Australia of today, that it is becoming more and more multicultural, and that any person of any race, colour or creed can be proud to call themselves Aussie. As a white arse visiting Sydney, I usually feel like the minority under the Asians, Indians, Arabs and Islanders, which can be scary. An Irishman told me 'a dog might not bight you, but if you start hitting it with a stick it just might!' I think we've been hitting you blokes with a metaphorical stick long enough to get a reaction.

    My question is: What can we do to create a bit more harmony from here in?

  9. #9
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    I'm what you would call a half wog in Australia, My father came from Greece and my mother is from England, and I was born in Australia, althought I got my natural blond hair and fair complection from my mother, I look like a traditional OZZIE.
    When I was at school althought I had natural blond hair I was called the bleached Wog because of my Greek family name.
    Even thought I am the decendent of a wog, I have to agree with my 100% wog father, that muliticulturalisum, has been forced onto the traditional bronzed ozzies with out there agreement, politition on both sides have enforced migration onto a population that never wanted a big population, and to this day most ozzies resent this intrution.
    OZZIES feel that they have had there culture destroyed, ask why all asians countries have zeoro net migration and they will tell you how it changes the culture of a country, when a culture changes people lose trust in others in society.
    I can look at migration in Australia unbiasily because I'm half Wog and I'm old enought to see how Australia was before multicultural migration and after, and I can tell you it has compleitly destroyed Sydney and the trust people have in each other.
    Australian culture before Multiculturalium In the 50's Australia was the richest county in the world per capitar, people used to leave there houses unlocked so the milk man could put the milk in the fridge and pick up the money off the dinning room table, no one got there car stolen, crime was so low, and if a woman left her hand bad on a bus seat no one would touch it or some one would return it. People were friendly would say hello, every one would vollunteer to help people as every one was your friend. I work in a hospital and older Australian's tell me how good things used to be.
    Multiculturalisum came in, some aggresive european races started ripping the more gental and trusting OZZIES off, trust soon was lost and a hatred began because of the enforced destruction of the OZZIE culture.
    Asian's have seen how multiculturalisum has destroyed the social fabric of western countries, that is why they will not have a bar of it, no asian country wants it. Australia when it was an affluent mono culture had little trouble, just like Japan, an affluent mono culture, Japan has so little crime and so much trust amonst it's people, KEEP UP the good work ASIA, stay Mono Culture, thats why I love to come and see you as I don't have to put up with the problems imported into Australia. Australian culture has been destroyed, and the younger Australian,s have not seen what a good trusting life Australian's used to have, young Australia's have multicuturalisum ramed down there head and have been brain washed into beleiving it is good.
    I can tell you now multicuturalisum has destroyed Australia, so much I would prefer to live back in Mono cultural Greece.
    see that picture posted with all thoughs nationalities, that is a typical sydney australian school now, now imagine you living in bangkok and you was a Thai, and you became a minority in every school you went to because it was ful of people from africa india and south america, and every time you went in a shop they would peak african instead of Tha, and when they did speak Thai there accent was so bad you could not understand them. That is Sydney Australia now, I can not understand any one because 80% of the population is speaking 50 other languages.
    WARNING THAILAND, under no circumstance make this same mistake Australia made. Your 99% Mono cultural and proud, you all speak Thai, I wish every one in Australia spock english

  10. #10
    dinkum Guest
    Paul_au,

    Thanks for showing us that intelligence does not grow with age.
    <span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]althought I got my natural blond hair and fair complection from my mother, I look like a traditional OZZIE.
    I&#39;ve never seen a traditional Australian with fair skin or blond hair, or do you think that 50,000 years of tradition can be forgotten within a few generations?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]politition on both sides have enforced migration onto a population that never wanted a big population, and to this day most ozzies resent this intrution.
    Your father is correct that the aboriginals never agreed with multiculturalism or migration, and they do resent it, and their culture is destroyed in most places. Every white person on this continent is either an immigrant or a descendant of them, most of them leaving their homeland to come here in search of a better life, unaware that it might be at the cost of another, the same as other non-white immigrants.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Australian culture before Multiculturalium In the 50&#39;s Australia was the richest county in the world per capitar, people used to leave there houses unlocked so the milk man could put the milk in the fridge and pick up the money off the dinning room table, no one got there car stolen, crime was so low
    You don&#39;t think Australia&#39;s relative prosperity in the pre 1950s could&#39;ve had anything to do with Eurasia being continuously devastated by war? Gor wrote that his parents also spoke of halcyon days, when they could leave the house unlocked in &#39;monocultural&#39; Thailand. And in my town people lock their doors and cars get stolen, without any wogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Asian&#39;s have seen how multiculturalisum has destroyed the social fabric of western countries, that is why they will not have a bar of it, no asian country wants it.
    Asians have seen how western culture is destroying the fabric of their own, and they shouldn&#39;t want it, just like the indigenous people here never did.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Australia when it was an affluent mono culture had little trouble, just like Japan, an affluent mono culture, Japan has so little crime and so much trust amonst it&#39;s people, KEEP UP the good work ASIA, stay Mono Culture, thats why I love to come and see you as I don&#39;t have to put up with the problems imported into Australia. Australian culture has been destroyed, and the younger Australian,s have not seen what a good trusting life Australian&#39;s used to have, young Australia&#39;s have multicuturalisum ramed down there head and have been brain washed into beleiving it is good.
    There is a book you should read that strongly supports your view. It&#39;s called "Mein Kampf" and was written by a Viennese artist who blamed racial minorities for his failure and misery, and indeed the misery of his land, and its traditionally blond people. He also went on to send the world into a war that ended with a divided Europe and a cold war, which led to mass migration to Australia, particularly from Greece. It also led to the formation of the Israeli state, and the new world order, with the USA on the throne. Coincidentally, he formed a chummy relationship with the Japanese, who at the time were exerting the force of their superior race around Korea and Manchuria, followed by the Pacific Islands and SE Asia. Their demise led to the tense division of Korea today. Australians fought the Nazis in Greece and were enslaved by the Japanese in Thailand, because they didn&#39;t believe in their racist tripe.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I can tell you now multicuturalisum has destroyed Australia, so much I would prefer to live back in Mono cultural Greece.
    Why don&#39;t you?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]WARNING THAILAND, under no circumstance make this same mistake Australia made. Your 99% Mono cultural and proud, you all speak Thai
    Good point, but perhaps a little belated. Thailand shut their doors to the Europeans for 150 years because they knew the danger of the Farang, and they did avoid making the mistake Australia made, they never got colonised. However, Thailand&#39;s population comprises of "Ethnic divisions: 75% Thai, 14% Chinese, 11% other, including Khmer and Mon minorities. Indigenous groups include the Karen (hill people), Semang, Lana and Chao Nam (coastal nomads)" - SBS World Guide. Although they would all just be Asian to you right? Thai is the first language for around 80% of the population. There are over 2 million Muslims in Thailand.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I wish every one in Australia spock english
    And tha wuns hue claim to spock it shood bee abel too rite it to, A&#33;

    You know your self because you remember your experiences, so how can you suppose to know the world without her history? If you didn&#39;t learn from your mistakes, you would still wet the bed. I think it&#39;s good that all people can voice their own opinion, but just because one person avidly displays their stupidity, idiocy, ignorance and arrogance, it doesn&#39;t mean that the whole population is like that.

    Perhaps, Pauldolf, you could attempt writing something positive, possible and plausible for once... just for a change and a challenge.

    HEIL&#33; Pauldolf_Hitlau&#33;</span>

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