Reputation in Thailand

[Tod-Daniels]

Again, I think they are confusing "face" with "respect", which are NOT the same animals here in Thailand.

Possibly because of your position in the company you worked for here, you were given "respect" (or at least the Thais who were subordinate to you acted like they respected or were deferential to you). Still, that has nothing to do with face.

On the other hand, suppose you gave your subordinates a task; one which they knew immediately after hearing what you said, couldn't be done. None of your staff would say to you, "Umm excuse me sir, that's just not possible (in the time frame, with the resources available to us, etc). This is because you would "lose face" by having been too stupid to have seen what was obvious to them. Instead they will go back to their desks, do nothing about the task and "wait" for you to realize you'd given them a task which couldn't be done.

In a post about Thai books I recommended one called "Cross-Culture ฝรั่งไม่เข้าใจ คนไทยไม่เก็ท by Christopher Wright, (“Foreigners don’t understand, Thais don’t get it”). This book goes over exactly why Thais act so darned Thai, and why foreigners act so darned foreign. It also gives ways to "bridge" this cultural gap in the work place. (Unfortunately, the book is written in Thai, so unless you can read Thai it's not useful).

Now I have just two questions for the O/P;
Why would they "want" something they can't understand the concept of?
Why would they care anyway?

It doesn't matter how long a foreigner lives here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", they ALWAYS gonna be foreigners. They might be married to a Thai, have a passel of half-Thai kids, speak/understand, read/write Thai fine, maybe even have gone the Permanent Resident - Thai citizenship route, but at the end of the day, what they ain't ever gonna be is THAI (no matter what piece of paper says they are). They're always gonna be seen as foreigners by the Thais.

It's a non issue to me, by not being Thai, I'm not obligated to act in any way but the way I've always been; a 100% born, bred, corn-fed American. As foreigners here we pretty much get a "free pass" when we don't "act like the Thais do", and I’ve been thankful for that “pass” every day of the last 7 years I’ve been here.

Meanwhile, it might be worth remembering that there’s such a thing as learning to accept something that we cannot change. It doesn’t mean agreeing with it. It doesn’t mean liking it. Sometimes we don't even have to understand it. It just means trying to live with it if we don't have a better choice.

The above quote reminds me of what's called the "Serenity Prayer". I have a version of it hanging above my bed in a cross stitch my grandmother did;

“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.”

[Curt]

The above quote reminds me of what's called the "Serenity Prayer".

And, the "Serenity Prayer" kinda reminds me of Buddhism.

[Marie]

The above quote reminds me of what's called the "Serenity Prayer". I have a version of it hanging above my bed in a cross stitch my grandmother did;

I must admit this is one prayer that has considerably helped shape my philosophy in life. It has also been adopted as a motto among consultants/troubleshooters who have much use of this Wisdom in sorting out what can and cannot be changed.

[Betti]

failing in a Thai school? Ming, which planet are you from? :-) they don't fail. they round scores up to the lowest non-failing mark. all the time. everyone knows what it means, parents know, just everyone pretends it's all ok. Thais must be world champions at pretending everything is all right as it is, and they have an incredible superiority complex about their culture. it is tedious to work in this system. hope to God they will have the courage to face some issues, otherwise I think things could turn very nasty. (mafia getting out of contol in Phuket, flooding every year, education as it is, transportation, especially bus accidents all the time, the exploitation of refugees and migrant workers from less fortunate countries, corruption and more corruption at every level of government, total denial of Thailand having a worldwide reputation as a sex tourism destination, etc.)

[khonrai]

Hi

Is it me only but I think

Tod-Daniels and Betti would make a great match or couple

seems like their cynicism and views of thailand are similar.

no offense just an observation.

[Tod-Daniels]

OFF-TOPIC AS WELL!!: (Plus edited; because in hindsight, I believe parts of the post I'd made to be "too inflammatory" and deleted some of it.)

See, even I know when to "color inside the lines". . . .

As far as the education system; the US has a campaign called; "no-child-left-behind". It's designed to make sure everyone gets access to education. I call it the same thing here in Thailand; although it only relates to the fact that NO Thai child fails class EVER, everyone passes. Why do you think there's a private school on almost every street corner in Bangkok? It's because their education system seems almost designed so that it doesn't "teach" them anything. Unless they take outside classes, at the end of a 4 year university program all they come away with is a "pretty piece of paper".

Thankfully, I do believe changes are comin' (whether the "old guard" of Thailand want it to or not). Given the incredible ease of "connecting" with the world at large, Thailand will not be able to continue cramming the same myopic viewpoint down the throats of the up-coming generations of Thais. The Thai youth of today are questioning "why things are the way they are", and they are growing increasing disenfranchised with the rote answer from adults "it's always been like this". My biggest hopes in this country changing for the better are indeed the Thai youth of today.

[Betti]

that was quite mean and rather uncalled for.
I still love Thailand but they need to grow up. for themselves and their own children. that was my point. not just flaming for the sake of it.
I could write a much harsher criticism of my own country, or pretty much any other country.

[khonrai]

hi

I wasn't being mean.

both Betti and Tod are intellegent well read educated people who are passionate about their beliefs and feelings. and are not afraid to tell the truth.as they see it.

I may not agree with them all the time but I respect them both as they live full time in Thailand and see thailand as a local
not as a tourist or farang with rose colored glass's

[Betti]

thanks for clarifying.
working in a school in Yangon now, it's an immense relief that even though the majority of the staff and almost all the kids are local, it's a western / British mindset that runs things, not the Asian. things actually get done, don't get swept under the carpet, fee-paying parents' face issues are not the number one priority, real education is, etc etc.

[Tod-Daniels]

Wow!! I don’t know if “Betti” took offense to what you’d said or that you used my name in the same post!!

While OFF TOPIC: I’ll relate it anyway because it shows the Thais are racist to the n-th degree, towards other Thais but really towards other neighboring countries and slightly may relate to "reputation". ..

There’s a daily free Thai newspaper called M2F which is handed out here in Bangkok. Last week or so the headlines were something along the lines of; “Thai loses to Lao on English proficiency!” When I went out in the morning to get a copy there were a whole herd of Thais standing around the lady handin’ them out talking about the head line.

In taking to them I found out they didn’t take exception to the fact they suck at English (because they already know they do); what most of them didn’t like was that the headlines said they were worse than the Laotians at English!!

One Thai said to me, “Well you know Lao was a former colony and we’ve NEVER been colonized.” I replied to him, “Lao was part of FRENCH Indochina and French people tend to speak French NOT English. He just made a face and walked away. Amazing Thailand. . .